Argentina collapsed before default (graph)
from Dean Baker
Ezra Klein’s WonkBlog has an interesting piece asking whether Greece is going to have the dubious honor of having the largest economic downturn in modern history. The piece quotes Uri Dadush, a former World Bank official, who predicts a decline of 25-30 percent, which would beat both Argentina’s 20 percent decline in 1998 to 2002 and Latvia’s 24 percent decline in the current crisis.
The piece is a bit sloppy on one point, saying that Argentina’s decline followed the default on its debt in December of 2001. Actually, the vast majority of the decline preceded the default. Argentina’s economy had already contracted by more than 16 percent by the time of the default. It shrank by around 5 percent following the default before turning around in the second half of 2002.
Source: International Monetary Fund
This matters in the current context since many people are asking what alternatives Greece has to following the austerity path being demanded by the IMF, the ECB, and the EU. While there are reasons that a default would be more difficult in Greece’s case than Argentina’s (most importantly Argentina had its own currency), the post-default experience of Argentina suggests that it probably chose the better route.
Leave a Reply Cancel reply
Guidelines for Comments
• This blog is renowned for its high level of comment discussion. These guidelines exist to further that reputation.
• Engage with the arguments of the post and of your fellow discussants.
• Try not to flood discussion threads with only your comments.
• Do not post slight variations of the same comment under multiple posts.
• Show your fellow discussants the same courtesy you would if you were sitting around a table with them.
Real World Economics Review
Real World Economics Review
WEA – May 2011 – 11,500+ members
5600 people follow this blog on Twitter
Recent Comments
- lyonwiss on Paul Davidson at University of chicago economics department seminar
- paul davidson on Paul Davidson at University of chicago economics department seminar
- davetaylor1 on Paul Davidson at University of chicago economics department seminar
- davetaylor1 on Paul Davidson at University of chicago economics department seminar
- Robert Locke on Paul Davidson at University of chicago economics department seminar
- paul davidson on Paul Davidson at University of chicago economics department seminar
- Garrett Connelly on The state of economics: Krugman is wrong
- lyonwiss on Paul Davidson at University of chicago economics department seminar
- scottonthespot on The state of economics: Krugman is wrong
- Robert Locke on The state of economics: Krugman is wrong
- Edward J. Dodson on rwer-issue-62
- Asad Zaman on rwer-issue-62
- Michael Monterey on The state of economics: Krugman is wrong
- paul davidson on Paul Davidson at University of chicago economics department seminar
- Doug on The state of economics: Krugman is wrong
Top Posts and Pages- last 48 hours
- The state of economics: Krugman is wrong
- Paul Davidson at University of chicago economics department seminar
- FROOPP - or understanding peoples perceptions of inflation (1 graph)
- "The upper class has a higher propensity for unethical behavior."
- Connecting the dots—or not (Stiglitz or Krugman)
- issue no. 63 of real-world economics review
- Libertarian Chaos
- Emerging vs. developed countries' GDP growth rates 1986 to 2015
- Creating an Economics for the 21st Century
- IS-LM is bad economics no matter what Krugman says
Revere Award in Economics
Dynamite Prize for Economics
Blog Authors
- anmayhew
- Lewis L. Smith
- bruceedmonds
- Kevin P. Gallagher
- deanbaker1
- Steve Keen
- Deniz Kellecioglu
- David F. Ruccio
- donaldgillies
- Peter Dorman
- Editor
- frankackerman
- frankrotering
- Edward Fullbrook
- iettogg
- jamieamorgan
- Jim Stanford
- julieanelson
- Mark Weisbrot
- merijnknibbe
- paul davidson
- Juan Pablo Pardo-Guerra
- Peter Earl
- pesod
- peterradford
- paul ormerod
- Peter Earl
- staveren
Most downloaded RWER papers
- The state of China’s economy 2009 (James Angresano)
- What Is Neoclassical Economics? (Christian Arnsperger and Yanis Varoufakis)
- Trade and inequality: The role of economists (Dean Baker)
- Why some countries are poor and some rich: a non-Eurocentric view (Deniz Kellecioglu)
- Global finance in crisis (Jacques Sapir)
- The housing bubble and the financial crisis (Dean Baker)
- Debunking the theory of the firm—a chronology (Steve Keen and Russell Standish)
- New thinking on poverty (Paul Shaffer)
- Green capitalism: the god that failed (Richard Smith)
RWER Contributors
Editor: Edward Fullbrook. Associate Editor: Jamie Morgan. PAST CONTRIBUTORS: James Galbraith, Frank Ackerman, André Orléan, Hugh Stretton, Jacques Sapir, Edward Fullbrook, Gilles Raveaud, Deirdre McCloskey, Tony Lawson, Geoff Harcourt, Joseph Halevi, Sheila C. Dow, Kurt Jacobsen, The Cambridge 27, Paul Ormerod, Steve Keen, Grazia Ietto-Gillies, Emmanuelle Benicourt, Le Movement Autisme-Economie, Geoffrey Hodgson, Ben Fine, Michael A. Bernstein, Julie A. Nelson, Jeff Gates, Anne Mayhew, Bruce Edmonds, Jason Potts, John Nightingale, Alan Shipman, Peter E. Earl, Marc Lavoie, Jean Gadrey, Peter Söderbaum, Bernard Guerrien, Susan Feiner, Warren J. Samuels, Katalin Martinás, George M. Frankfurter, Elton G. McGoun, Yanis Varoufakis, Alex Millmow, Bruce J. Caldwell, Poul Thøis Madsen, Helge Peukert, Dietmar Lindenberger, Reiner Kümmel, Jane King, Peter Dorman, K.M.P. Williams, Frank Rotering, Ha-Joon Chang, Claude Mouchot, Robert E. Lane, James G. Devine, Richard Wolff, Jamie Morgan, Robert Heilbroner, William Milberg, Stephen T. Ziliak, Steve Fleetwood, Tony Aspromourgos, Yves Gingras, Ingrid Robeyns, Robert Scott Gassler, Grischa Periono, Esther-Mirjam Sent, Ana Maria Bianchi, Steve Cohn, Peter Wynarczyk, Daniel Gay, Asatar Bair, Nathaniel Chamberland, James Bondio, Jared Ferrie, Goutam U. Jois, Charles K. Wilber, Robert Costanza, Saski Sivramkrishna, Jorge Buzaglo, Jim Stanford, Matthew McCartney, Herman E. Daly, Kyle Siler, Kepa M. Ormazabal, Antonio Garrido, Robert Locke, J. E. King, Paul Davidson, Juan Pablo Pardo-Guerra, Kevin Quinn, Trond Andresen, Shaun Hargreaves Heap, Lewis L. Smith, Gautam Mukerjee, Ian Fletcher, Rajni Bakshi, M. Ben-Yami, Deborah Campbell, Irene van Staveren, Neva Goodwin, Thomas Weisskopf, Mehrdad Vahabi, Erik S. Reinert, Jeroen Van Bouwel, Bruce R. McFarling, Pia Malaney, Andrew Spielman, Jeffery Sachs, Julian Edney, Frederic S. Lee, Paul Downward, Andrew Mearman, Dean Baker, Tom Green, David Ellerman, Wolfgang Drechsler, Clay Shirky, Bjørn-Ivar Davidsen, Robert F. Garnett, Jr., François Eymard-Duvernay, Olivier Favereau, Robert Salais, Laurent Thévenot, Mohamed Aslam Haneef, Kurt Rothschild, Jomo K. S., Gustavo Marqués, David F. Ruccio, John Barry, William Kaye-Blake; Michael Ash, Donald Gillies, Kevin P.Gallagher, Lyuba Zarsky, Michel Bauwens, Bruce Cumings, Concetta Balestra, Frank Fagan, Christian Arnsperger, Stanley Alcorn, Ben Solarz, Sanford Jacoby, Kari Polanyi, P. Sainath, Margaret Legum, Juan Carlos Moreno-Brid, Igor Pauno, Ron Morrison, John Schmitt, Ben Zipperer, John B. Davis, Alan Freeman, Andrew Kliman, Philip Ball, Alan Goodacre, Robert McMaster, David A. Bainbridge, Richard Parker, Tim Costello, Brendan Smith, Jeremy Brecher, Peter T. Manicas, Arjo Klamer, Donald MacKenzie, Max Wright, Joseph E. Stiglitz. George Irvin, Frédéric Lordon, James Angresano, Robert Pollin, Heidi Garrett-Peltier, Dani Rodrik, Marcellus Andrews, Riccardo Baldissone, Ted Trainer, Kenneth J. Arrow, Brian Snowdon, Helen Johns, Fanny Coulomb, J. Paul Dunne, Jayati Ghosh, L. A Duhs, Paul Shaffer, Donald W Braben, Roland Fox, Marco Gillies, Joshua C. Hall, Robert A. Lawson, Will Luther, JP Bouchaud, Claude Hillinger, George Soros, David George, Alan Wolfe, Thomas I. Palley, Sean Mallin, Clive Dilnot, Dan Turton, Korkut Ertürk, Gökcer Özgür, Geoff Tily, Jonathan M. Harris, Thomas I. Palley, Jan Kregel, Peter Gowan, David Colander, Hans Foellmer, Armin Haas, Alan Kirman, Katarina Juselius, Brigitte Sloth, Thomas Lux, Luigi Sapaventa, Gunnar Tómasson, Anatole Kaletsky, Robert R Locke, Bill Lucarelli, L. Randall Wray, Mark Weisbrot, Walden Bello, Marvin Brown, Deniz Kellecioglu, Esteban Pérez Caldentey, Matías Vernengo, Thodoris Koutsobinas, David A. Westbrook, Peter Radford, Paul A. David, Richard Smith, Russell Standish, Yeva Nersisyan, Elizabeth Stanton, Jonathan Kirshner, Thomas Wells, Bruce Elmslie, Steve Marglin, Adam Kessler, John Duffield, Mary Mellor, Merijn Knibbe, Michael Hudson, Lars Pålsson Syll, Korkut Erturk, Jane D’Arista, Richard Smith, Ali Kadri, Egmont Kakarot-Handtke, Ozgur Gun, George DeMartino, Robert H. Wade, Silla Sigurgeirsdottir, Victor A. Beker, Pavlina R. Tcherneva, Ali Kadri, Egmont Kakarot-Handtke, Ozgur Gun, George DeMartino, Robert H. Wade, Silla Sigurgeirsdottir, Victor A. Beker, Pavlina R. Tcherneva
RWER Board of Editors
Nicola Acocella (Italy, University of Rome) Robert Costanza (USA, Portland State University) Wolfgang Drechsler ( Estonia, Tallinn University of Technology) Kevin Gallagher (USA, Boston University) Jo Marie Griesgraber (USA, New Rules for Global Finance Coalition) Bernard Guerrien (France, Université Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne) Michael Hudson (USA, University of Missouri at Kansas City) Frederic S. Lee (USA, University of Missouri at Kansas City) Anne Mayhew (USA, University of Tennessee) Gustavo Marqués (Argentina, Universidad de Buenos Aires) Julie A. Nelson (USA, University of Massachusetts, Boston) Paul Ormerod (UK, Volterra Consulting) Richard Parker (USA, Harvard University) Ann Pettifor (UK, Policy Research in Macroeconomics) Alicia Puyana (Mexico, Latin American School of Social Sciences) Jacques Sapir (France, École des hautes études en sciences socials) Peter Söderbaum (Sweden, School of Sustainable Development of Society and Technology) Peter Radford (USA, The Radford Free Press) David Ruccio (USA, Notre Dame University) Immanuel Wallerstein (USA, Yale University)
Family Links
- David Ruccio’s Blog
- Dean Baker Op-Eds and Columns
- Global Development and Environmental Institute
- Mark Weisbrot Op-Eds and Columns
- No Apparent Motive
- Real Climate Economics
- real-world economics review
- Richard Wolff
- Steve Keen’s Debtwatch
- The Progressive Economics Forum
- The Radford Free Press
- Triple Crisis
- Walking Against Australia's Property Mania
Contact
Archives
- May 2013
- April 2013
- March 2013
- February 2013
- January 2013
- December 2012
- November 2012
- October 2012
- September 2012
- August 2012
- July 2012
- June 2012
- May 2012
- April 2012
- March 2012
- February 2012
- January 2012
- December 2011
- November 2011
- October 2011
- September 2011
- August 2011
- July 2011
- June 2011
- May 2011
- April 2011
- March 2011
- February 2011
- January 2011
- December 2010
- November 2010
- October 2010
- September 2010
- August 2010
- July 2010
- June 2010
- May 2010
- April 2010
- March 2010
- February 2010
- January 2010
- December 2009
- November 2009
- October 2009
The Argentina´s lesson is clear. The default was the turning point. There was a new issue of debt on 2003, with a, more or less, and difficult to quantify due to complex structure of new bonds, 65% haircut.
The mix included bonds in US dollars as well as bonds in A pesos tied to GDP growth and others tied to inflation.
About 80% of bondholders (number is by heart) accepted. Grudgingly. At the time Argentina was treated as a pariah state, with economic MSM saying that disaster was going to happen very soon.
The holdouts on the exchange of bonds recurred to New York state judges. They have not seen a single penny since.
The currency was devalued by the end of 2001 and after that, under Nestor Kirchner who took office in the first months of 2003 it was pegged to the dollar at about 30% of the previous 1 to 1 parity.
A steep tax system on agricultural exports was established, which yielded, helped by international hign prices, to offset the consequences of the alienation from capital markets.
Since that Argentina has seen it´s public debt ratio to GDP fell significantly.
Policies carried on were stimulative, with big payouts to people under poverty line.
A broad public investment policy was also developed.
I think the most important difference with Argentina and Greece, is the fact Greece have a shared currency while Argentina had their own. A separate currency makes all the difference in crises as you have the freedom to manipulate the currency throught fiscal policies which Greece just cant do. A good example is the UK, they are much better off having not joined the Euro as they became a sort of safe haven from the euro as there currency was trusted more.
Sorry for a bit of spam, but give my blog a read if you like: http://economicinterest.wordpress.com/
On the issue of Argentina’s own currency, just a question for those better informed… Was it not it a fact that the Argentinian currency was overvalued as it was «linked», «indexed» (or whatever) to the American dollar?…
For minor economies such as Greece or Argentina, the difference of having a national currency is not so great. In either case sovereign debt is in some foreign currency such as dollars or euros, so bankruptcy means not being able, or choosing not to, pay bonds when they come due. Only the US, UK, and a handful of other economies have sovereign debt in their own currency, and that puts then in a much better situation.
The currency discussion is worth having because the Eurozone as a whole has debt in its own currency and could, for example, devalue it. That would suit Greece, Italy, etc. but not Germany. The fact that the Eurozone chooses to have a hard euro rather than devalue it is worth a political debate. The complaint is that Germany is imposing Germany’s preferred monetary policy rather than one good for Europe as a whole, or at least one sensitive to the debt crisis.
Other than that, having a sovereign currency makes a difference mainly in the internal economy during and after a default. With a sovereign currency, some semblance of normality is maintained. There’s moderate inflation and imports like iPads become more expensive relative to domestic products such as tomatoes. For the average person, this is good. With a situation like Greece in the Euro, the state goes bankrupt in a strict accounting sense, like a business. At best, the state can spend as many Euros as it earns, day by day, and that means hard cuts or other serious cashflow problems. At worst, the state is in some kind of receivership where some of its assets or income go to creditors first.
The political question for Greece is really not about exit from the euro (at least not because of bankruptcy) but about the mechanics of bankruptcy. In the US, states and large corporations fall under bankruptcy protection regularly. They do not get liquidated – they are protected and recover. In the first instance, why does the Eurozone lack such mechanisms formally? Specifically for Greece, the impression of many people (and this is hard to assess objectively because of a lack of transparency) is that Greece is being steamrollered into some form of ad-hoc receivership that favors creditors over the people.
But the people are bankrupt, you say. Yes, they are. Well, the state is. But the “zero” position is a sudden default where Greece refuses to pay bonds on maturity and uses every Euro of tax income to pay salaries and pensions. Any settlement that keeps credit flowing but extracts either assets or income to pay off debt is, worse than that, in monetary terms, from the point of view of Greeks. Such a settlement may make sense in terms of goodwill (and that’s really why people pay their debts generally) but in Greece’s case goodwill is very worn out with all parties.