Home > The Economics Profession > Krugman on math and models in economics

Krugman on math and models in economics

from Lars Syll

Paul Krugman had a post up on his blog a while ago where he argued that “Keynesian” macroeconomics more than anything else “made economics the model-oriented field it has become.” In Krugman’s eyes, Keynes was a “pretty klutzy modeler,” and it was only thanks to Samuelson’s famous 45-degree diagram and Hicks’s IS-LM that things got into place. Although admitting that economists have a tendency to use  ”excessive math” and “equate hard math with quality” he still vehemently defends — and always have — the mathematization of economics:

I’ve seen quite a lot of what economics without math and models looks like — and it’s not good.

Sure, “New Keynesian” economists like Krugman — and their forerunners, “Keynesian” economists like Paul Samuelson and the young John Hicks — certainly have contributed to making economics more mathematical and “model-oriented.”

But if these math-is-the-message-modelers aren’t able to show that the mechanisms or causes that they isolate and handle in their mathematically formalized macromodels are stable in the sense that they do not change when we “export” them to our “target systems,” these mathematical models do only hold under ceteris paribus conditions and are consequently of limited value to our understandings, explanations or predictions of real economic systems. Or as the eminently quotable Keynes wrote already in Treatise on Probability (1921):

KeynesByGrant

The kind of fundamental assumption about the character of material laws, on which scientists appear commonly to act, seems to me to be [that] the system of the material universe must consist of bodies … such that each of them exercises its own separate, independent, and invariable effect, a change of the total state being compounded of a number of separate changes each of which is solely due to a separate portion of the preceding state … Yet there might well be quite different laws for wholes of different degrees of complexity, and laws of connection between complexes which could not be stated in terms of laws connecting individual parts … If different wholes were subject to different laws qua wholes and not simply on account of and in proportion to the differences of their parts, knowledge of a part could not lead, it would seem, even to presumptive or probable knowledge as to its association with other parts … These considerations do not show us a way by which we can justify induction … /427 No one supposes that a good induction can be arrived at merely by counting cases. The business of strengthening the argument chiefly consists in determining whether the alleged association is stable, when accompanying conditions are varied … /468 In my judgment, the practical usefulness of those modes of inference … on which the boasted knowledge of modern science depends, can only exist … if the universe of phenomena does in fact present those peculiar characteristics of atomism and limited variety which appears more and more clearly as the ultimate result to which material science is tending.

According to Keynes, science should help us penetrate to “the true process of causation lying behind current events” and disclose “the causal forces behind the apparent facts.”  We should look out for causal relations. But models — mathematical, econometric, or what have you — can never be more than a starting point in that endeavour. There is always the possibility that there are other (non-quantifiable) variables – of vital importance and although perhaps unobservable and non-additive not necessarily epistemologically inaccessible – that were not considered for the formalized mathematical model.

These fundamental and radical problems are akin to those Keynes talked about when he launched his critique against the “atomistic fallacy” already in the 1920s:

The atomic hypothesis which has worked so splendidly in Physics breaks down in Psychics. We are faced at every turn with the problems of Organic Unity, of Discreteness, of Discontinuity – the whole is not equal to the sum of the parts, comparisons of quantity fails us, small changes produce large effects, the assumptions of a uniform and homogeneous continuum are not satisfied. Thus the results of Mathematical Psychics turn out to be derivative, not fundamental, indexes, not measurements, first approximations at the best; and fallible indexes, dubious approximations at that, with much doubt added as to what, if anything, they are indexes or approximations of.

The kinds of laws and relations that “modern” economics has established, are laws and relations about mathematically formalized entities in models that presuppose causal mechanisms being atomistic and additive. When causal mechanisms operate in real world social target systems they only do it in ever-changing and unstable combinations where the whole is more than a mechanical sum of parts. If economic regularities obtain they do it (as a rule) only because we engineered them for that purpose. Outside man-made mathematical-statistical “nomological machines” they are rare, or even non-existant. Unfortunately that also makes most of contemporary mainstream neoclassical endeavours of mathematical economic modeling rather useless. And that also goes for Krugman and the rest of the “New Keynesian” family.

  1. Dave Raithel
    November 24, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    I’ve remained very quiet these several months now, in part for my own effort to answer the same question I still have re Mr. Syll’s critique of the orthodox economics he examines. It is still not clear to me (though I have a hunch) if the central point is that we cannot, for epistemic reasons, get from the sum of particulars to the laws of the whole; or whether the inability to do so is for the ontological status of the whole. I suspect Mr. Syll means the latter. I hope my observing that a tradition of 20th century philosophy disputes there is any viable means of distinguishing epistemological from ontological limitations in science, is not interpreted to be deprecating. Yet I cannot get past the sense that I keep re-reading some new versions of the same problems that philo of science ran aground the last 50 years.

  2. Norman L. Roth
    November 24, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    Nov.24,2013
    In order to understand what follows, the patient reader should refer back to:
    [1]REAL BUSINESS CYCLES ..OBFUSCATION… by Lars Syll. Scroll down to #5 OF Aug.11, 2013.

    [2] [SCIENTIFIC ILLUSION of Modern Macroeconomics , #2, of Nov.09, 2013

    [3] KEYNES SOLUTION, Scroll down to July 23, 2013, #10, Which refers to Lars Syll’s LIMITS of CAUSATION & STATISTICAL INFERENCE & # 12 of Aug.09 2013 as well.

    [4] TELOS & TECHNOS, The footnote * on page 116 of the 197 page edition: And for Norbert Weiner’s famous condemnation [GOD & GOLEM,1964] of the positivist-crazed mimicry of physics’ success at ‘measurement’ by Krugman’ mentors, go to page 80 of TELOS & TECHNOS,197 page edition.

    Once again the estimable Lars Syll has hit several grand-slam “home-runs” [I hope all you vulgarian America bashers out there will forgive this reference to her “National Pastime”].
    From the preceding, not to mention M. Syll’s ‘inferences’ to the limits to MODELS, we can conclude the following:

    (1) The relationship between the micro & the macro is the epitome of the GESTALT. Consult the relevant parts of TELOS & TECHNOS for more explanation. Keynes was not the first Economic thinker to understand this. As did Nicholas Georgescu Roegen, when he described Economics as a “non-arithmomorphic” science. For which he paid dearly at the hands of M. Krugman’s mentors. As did Ludwig V. Mises.

    (2)Far from dismissing “measurement” & quantifiability, M. Krugman’s mentors went absolutely whacko on the subject. With riseable consequences. e.g. The “LEETS” debacle [page 134 of T&T] & the Jorgensen/Grilliches debacle of 1967,page 129 of T &T: Because of a false “quantification” of an essentially heterogeneous process called Capital [See Chapter 5 of TELOS & TECHNOS]. This was in turn incorporated into an even crazier “measurement”, called Total Factor Productivity. Which led to the conclusion that the “value” [ ??] of ‘capital’ grew entirely because of ‘accumulation’ from 1945 to 1967. Consequently, no technological ‘progress’ had occurred in U.S. industry since 1945.

    [3] When all else fails in attempts at ‘measurement’, economists default to the AGGREGATE”. e.g. representative consumer, dummy variables, ‘capital’, aggregate [a.k.a “effective”] demand. Not to mention the worst example of all: Robert Solow’s consignment of “Technology” to the nebulous role of a residual operator…The ultimate obfuscation of its primal & concisely explicable role in real economic history.
    No wonder many practitioners in the Economics “profession” have turned themselves into modern reincarnations of the scientists of LAPUTA, in Jonathan Swift’s GULLIVER’S TRAVELS.
    Or the old time alchemists who tried to convert “dross” into gold by some yet undiscovered chemical reaction. Perhaps there true heirs are the practitioners of the “Monetarists’ Conceit” [see T&T again]. A console- control mentality which treats the macro-economy as a titanic gyroscopic system that can be ‘ manipulated into full employment “equilibrium” and all the benefits that go with it; By pressing the right buttons marked “Money supply”, interest rates & Tax structure in some hitherto undiscovered sequence or combination. They continuously change their jargon. Printing more money=Quantitative Easing =Buying back government paper =open-market operations[with printed money] =”Austerity” vs. no-Austerity=Quantitative Easing. And on and on, a la nausee. The much deeper roots of the tectonic- Ricardian shift in Income shares, cannot be addressed by any conceivable Monetary “solution”. Nor by gutting our financial institutions; Nor by hanging the bankers, the rich and the “financiers”: Perhaps by raising the demons of Gerald Winstanley’s “Diggers” from their graves ? Nor by invoking Pierre Joseph Proudhon’s “PROPERTY is THEFT” identity. Except one’s own property of course.
    Nor by the methods of their first cousins, the “discoverers” of total [itarian?] Economic Control Engineering. [e.g.”Design Mechanism”] Which they alone know how to apply to an incredibly complex interactive organism called an ECONOMY. Which is itself a set of interactive markets. Oh how these chaps hate MARKETS ! Maybe try good old-fashioned elimination. Like ‘whacking’ the villains of all those crackpot conspiracy theories: Who have made -off with the workers’ “surplus value” or the shortfall between Total purchasing power and total [AGGREGATE again ! ] prices. The latter two “solutions” being by far the easiest to debunk. Stay tuned for a much clearer explanation of our contemporary “crisis”. The result of a two-century long structural shift into economies of low ‘Natural Participation rates’. It’s permanent. And the product of evolution and spontaneous ordering. Not a grand Satanic conspiracy of the plutocrats and ‘illuminati” to dispossess everybody but themselves. Thank you for your patience, one and all. Norman L. Roth, Toronto, Canada. Please GOOGLE; [1]TELOS & TECHNOS, Roth [2] TECHNOS, Norman Roth [3] Origins of Markets, Norman Roth

    • BFWR
      November 30, 2013 at 5:55 am

      So exactly how do you “debunk” social Credit? If empirical evidence, that is cold hard facts, is allowed to be refuted by mere theory, which being an abstraction is at least once removed from temporal reality, then to the scientific mindset and in the vernacular, that’s what is referred to being “bass ackward” deduction. And if the only way that money re-circulates; so as to allegedly add purchasing power to the scarcity that the cost accounting books of every enterprise reveals to us is a scarcity of INDIVIDUAL purchasing power in ratio to total prices simultaneously created and needed to be liquidated in order for there to be the possibility of an economic equilibrium, is back through another enterprise…which only re-initiates that elemental and empirical scarcity ratio….then how is anywhere’s near the required additional INDIVIDUAL purchasing power created….except perhaps by creating more and more money/debt and injecting it into an economy which is further reducing the rational need for employment via innovation…and such injections are only piling up debt to the current un-repayable levels?

  3. BFWR
    November 25, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    I agree with most of what you say, especially about all of the conspiratorial nonsense that gets lumped into the economic blogosphere. However, you misunderstand the policies and philosophy of Social Credit. It includes the insights of “economies of low participation rates. The real confusion lies in market theorists confusing chaos for freedom which invites the novitiate’s perspective instead of the engineer’s. No policy will be perfect, but we “must not let the perfect be the enemy of the Good.”

  4. Fred Zaman
    November 30, 2013 at 3:56 am

    Keynesian Plutonomies:
    Laws of Non-quantifiable Economic Complexes

    Posted on November 30, “Keynesian Plutonomies” commemorates the New Millennium’s populist “Battle of Seattle.”

    Lars Syll, quoting Keynes:
    “There might well be quite different laws for wholes of different degrees of complexity, and laws of connections between complexes which could not be stated in terms of laws connecting individual parts”; which thus are “more than a mechanical sum of parts.” The laws and relations Keynes ascribes to such complexes, in his words, “penetrate to the true process of causation lying between current events.” In support of Keynes, Syll further suggests that “there is always the possibility that there are other (non-quantifiable) variables – of vital importance” to the explanation of the such complexes.

    The laws of which Keynes speaks possibly might include the “non-quantifiable” equations of “Keynesian plutonomies” given below. The variables bracketed in the “non-quantifiable equations” below are complexes whose constituents generally are not directly connected; but, nevertheless, as holistic complexes, are connected non-quantifiably. The of these equations are inherently non-quantifiable, so that the connections thereof similarly are non-quantifiable. Nevertheless, the connectivity of such complexes can be intuitively seen in the spontaneous coordination of their activities, processes, and institutions toward whatever common causes; very few constituents of which actually may be directly connected. The below equations of Keynesian plutonomy tell us that, as a unitary complex, and in the absence of effective oversight and regulation by democratic government, a capitalist de facto will emerge that structurally is a , which behind the scenes sustains itself through .

    1. = –
    2. = +

    These variables are not quantifiable in principle. They can, very usefully indeed, include quantitative descriptors of the complexes thus represented; but all such descriptors – although quantitative – nevertheless are symbolic only, and therefore not numerically interrelated in accordance with the above equations.

    In these equations, in their representing the non-quantifiable connections within and between high level complexes (in both economics and politics), the institutions of democracy – in any society whose government is to be of, by, and for the people all – must nullify or at least contain capitalism’s inherent impulse to become a “Keynesian plutonomy.” “Democracy” here refers generally to activities, processes, and institutions that are open to public view and reasonably accommodative to the public interest. “Capitalism” then refers generally to activities, processes, and institutions of the private sector that, in the service of economic freedom and property rights, are dedicated above everything else to the quest for wealth, power, and privilege. “Keynesian plutonomy” here refers to the dark side of capitalism’s economic complexes, which in both economics and politics virtually always emerges in the ongoing contest between “capitalism” and “democracy”; which the theory of Keynesian plutonomies regards as being in generally constant opposition.

    Chinese capitalism can provide an example of connections in the non-quantifiable complexity of Keynesian plutonomies. in equation 1 is, in Chinese capitalism, probably close to nonexistent; so that in China capitalism is almost wholly a composed of, according to equation 2, a that sustains a de facto . Based on this model, Chinese capitalism shows that, in principle, capitalism per se isn’t democratic in character; and therefore need not be, in any given circumstance, regarded as friendly to democracy. And indeed can and will be averse to democratic institutions, in particular “social democratic” institutions, that limit what capitalists are allowed to do in their corporate pursuit of wealth, power, and privilege.

    At the other end of the economic and political spectrum modeled by the equations of Keynesian plutonomy are the democracies of the Scandinavian countries. The of Scandinavian countries is much greater in economic and political power, thus countering to a much greater degree the tendency to become a powerful . Keynesian plutonomy in the United States lies somewhere intermediate between the extremely powerful plutonomy of Chinese capitalism and the far less powerful plutonomies of Scandinavian capitalism; but which currently – through the mantra of free market, free enterprise, and free trade – seems to be shifting ever closer to the right-wing, extreme plutonomy of Chinese capitalism.

    Holistic laws (and correlative equations) that govern non-quantifiable complexes having different degrees of complexity in economics and in politics, for example those in present examples of Keynesian plutonomies, perhaps can explain much when developed by those most able and willing to understand the terms and apply the logic thereof. Understandably, the possibility of such laws will be denied, even ridiculed, by many of those lacking the incentive to pursue such understanding. Indeed, efforts to develop such laws undoubtedly will be greatly hindered by economists that are highly educated, but blindly work in the service of the free market, free enterprise, and free trade (above everything else); whose professional training in neoclassical economics prevents them from seeing alternative economic possibilities regarding the existence of connections within and between non-quantifiable complexes. However, the logic of such connections, one might predict, ultimately will be shown empirically to be irrefutable.

  5. Fred Zaman
    November 30, 2013 at 4:07 am

    The brackets in the previous posting are evidently not allowed in posts. Here is the previous post without brackets:

    Keynesian Plutonomies:
    Laws of Non-quantifiable Economic Complexes

    Posted on November 30, “Keynesian Plutonomies” commemorates the New Millennium’s populist “Battle of Seattle.”

    Lars Syll, quoting Keynes:
    “There might well be quite different laws for wholes of different degrees of complexity, and laws of connections between complexes which could not be stated in terms of laws connecting individual parts”; which thus are “more than a mechanical sum of parts.” The laws and relations Keynes ascribes to such complexes, in his words, “penetrate to the true process of causation lying between current events.” In support of Keynes, Syll further suggests that “there is always the possibility that there are other (non-quantifiable) variables – of vital importance” to the explanation of the such complexes.

    The laws of which Keynes speaks possibly might include the “non-quantifiable” equations of “Keynesian plutonomies” given below. The variables in the “non-quantifiable equations” below are complexes whose constituents generally are not directly connected; but, nevertheless, as holistic complexes, are connected non-quantifiably. The variables of these equations are inherently non-quantifiable, so that the connections thereof similarly are non-quantifiable. Nevertheless, the connectivity of such complexes can be intuitively seen in the spontaneous coordination of their activities, processes, and institutions toward whatever common causes; very few constituents of which actually may be directly connected. The below equations of Keynesian plutonomy tell us that, as a unitary complex, and in the absence of effective oversight and regulation by democratic government, a capitalist plutonomy de facto will emerge that structurally is a corporate apartheid, which behind the scenes sustains itself through stealth economics.

    1. plutonomy = capitalism – democracy
    2. plutonomy = stealth economics + corporate apartheid

    These variables are not quantifiable in principle. They can, very usefully indeed, include quantitative descriptors of the complexes thus represented; but all such descriptors – although quantitative – nevertheless are symbolic only, and therefore not numerically interrelated in accordance with the above equations.

    In these equations, in their representing the non-quantifiable connections within and between high level complexes (in both economics and politics), the institutions of democracy – in any society whose government is to be of, by, and for the people all – must nullify or at least contain capitalism’s inherent impulse to become a “Keynesian plutonomy.” “Democracy” here refers generally to activities, processes, and institutions that are open to public view and reasonably accommodative to the public interest. “Capitalism” then refers generally to activities, processes, and institutions of the private sector that, in the service of economic freedom and property rights, are dedicated above everything else to the quest for wealth, power, and privilege. “Keynesian plutonomy” here refers to the dark side of capitalism’s economic complexes, which in both economics and politics virtually always emerges in the ongoing contest between “capitalism” and “democracy”; which the theory of Keynesian plutonomies regards as being in generally constant opposition.

    Chinese capitalism can provide an example of connections in the non-quantifiable complexity of Keynesian plutonomies. Democracy in equation 1 is, in Chinese capitalism, probably close to nonexistent; so that in China capitalism is almost wholly a plutonomy composed of, according to equation 2, a stealth economics that sustains a de facto corporate apartheid. Based on this model, Chinese capitalism shows that, in principle, capitalism per se isn’t democratic in character; and therefore need not be, in any given circumstance, regarded as friendly to democracy. And indeed can and will be averse to democratic institutions, in particular “social democratic” institutions, that limit what capitalists are allowed to do in their corporate pursuit of wealth, power, and privilege.

    At the other end of the economic and political spectrum modeled by the equations of Keynesian plutonomy are the democracies of the Scandinavian countries. The democracy of Scandinavian countries is much greater in economic and political power, thus countering to a much greater degree the capitalist tendency to become a powerful plutonomy. Keynesian plutonomy in the United States lies somewhere intermediate between the extremely powerful plutonomy of Chinese capitalism and the far less powerful plutonomies of Scandinavian capitalism; but which currently – through the mantra of free market, free enterprise, and free trade – seems to be shifting ever closer to the right-wing, extreme plutonomy of Chinese capitalism.

    Holistic laws (and correlative equations) that govern non-quantifiable complexes having different degrees of complexity in economics and in politics, for example those in present examples of Keynesian plutonomies, perhaps can explain much when developed by those most able and willing to understand the terms and apply the logic thereof. Understandably, the possibility of such laws will be denied, even ridiculed, by many of those lacking the incentive to pursue such understanding. Indeed, efforts to develop such laws undoubtedly will be greatly hindered by economists that are highly educated, but blindly work in the service of the free market, free enterprise, and free trade (above everything else); whose professional training in neoclassical economics prevents them from seeing alternative economic possibilities regarding the existence of connections within and between non-quantifiable complexes. However, the logic of such connections, one might predict, ultimately will be shown empirically to be irrefutable.

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