Home > Uncategorized > In the not too long run the economic process is inevitably dominated by a qualitative change

In the not too long run the economic process is inevitably dominated by a qualitative change

from Katharine Farrell   

Post-Neoliberal Economics by [Edward Fullbrook, Jamie Morgan]If economics is indeed concerned with how humankind goes about sustaining its own life, day to day, then representing that complexity must be built into the ontology of economic models.  Adjustments to variables, parameters and reference data can all contribute to improving models, but they do not necessarily address the ontological limitation that, in the original liberal theory “representation, [read that of Jevons and Walras] the economic process neither induces any qualitative change nor is affected by the qualitative change of the environment into which it is anchored” (NGR71:2).  This limitation is carried forward, in neoliberal theory, which continues to rely on the mechanical-physics-based mathematics of Walras, albeit with permutations and sometimes remarkable arithmetic acrobatics, and, it must be said, also much of heterodox economics, which continues to seek out ways to adjust and correct the math, in lieu of engaging with this root problem.  The brunt of the problem is, as described by Georgescu-Roegen, that “in the long run or even in the not too long run the economic (as well as the biological) process is inevitably dominated by a qualitative change which cannot be known in advance” (NGR71:17) and which “eludes arithmomorphic schematization” (NGR71:63).  In other words, this particular limitation in both liberal and neoliberal theory, that they fail to include the process of becoming, of causing to come into being, is not a limitation in the calculations but rather in the configuration of the mathematics underlying them (Mayumi, 2001)

  1. yoshinorishiozawa
    December 9, 2021 at 10:25 pm

    “[I]n the long run or even in the not too long run the economic (as well as the biological) process is inevitably dominated by a qualitative change which cannot be known in advance

    I agree with this understanding. I have written a long survey paper on economic growth theory pointing that proportional expansion does not and cannot represent the true growth theory.

    In other words, this particular limitation in both liberal and neoliberal theory, that they fail to include the process of becoming, of causing to come into being, is not a limitation in the calculations but rather in the configuration of the mathematics underlying them (Mayumi, 2001)

    It is not easy to understand qualitative change, but it is sometimes possible to understand qualitative change such as technological change only by a mathematical framework. See also this paper of mine. I want to know if you know any qualitative analysis or argument that is not mathematical and better than mine. These comments may be simply dominated by romanticism. See this book review by Yoshio Inoue (Section 5 in particular).

    If some of readers have difficulties to get a copy of a paper, please ask me directly.

  2. Meta Capitalism
    December 14, 2021 at 7:01 am

    For some economics and so-called “science” itself are is conceived as “the workings of a vast machine” in which individuals, groups, and institutions along with their behaviors are superfluous and unnecessary distractions to the deeper mathematical regularities waiting to be discovered through “social mathematics” just around the corner soon to be invented.

    But as I observe the world around me, the unfolding of the potential demise of American democracy itself and the very real potential of the rise of an authoritarianism in America with all the consequences that may offer the world, or the politicizing of a pandemic resulting in mass unnecessary death, I cannot help but agree with Richard Parker’s observation:

    Too narrowly conceived, issues of “economics” thus haven’t felt to me of surpassing importance in this moment – and yet they are. (Fullbrook, Edward ; Morgan, Jamie. Post-Neoliberal Economics (p. 60). World Economics Association Books. Kindle Edition. )

    (…) I’ve taught at Harvard for nearly 30 years, am nearly 75, and have witnessed many once-bold-seeming experiments in our profession’s attempts at theorizing, rise and then fall: input-output, the Phillips Curve (and NAIRU), game theory, supply side, monetarism, New, Neo-, and Post-Keynesianism, random walks, New Classical and New Growth theories (two among the many growth models from Harrod-Domar, the first I learned, to the various current flavors of DSGE), the Real Business Cycle, rational expectations, Taylor rules, MRI-based behavioral economics, the Washington Consensus, shock therapy, the new empiricism, and so far, it already appears, a good deal of behavioral economics and large-scale data manipulation.  I can still also clearly recall reading the AEA’s scholarly COGEE report on the state of American economics some 30 years ago, the one that found over 60% of graduate-level faculty agreeing that economics “overemphasizes mathematical and statistical tools at the expense of substance” and the report worrying aloud that the profession was producing a generation of “idiot savants”.[42] (Richard Parker, Of Copernican revolutions – and the suddenly-marginal marginal mind at the dawn of the Anthropocene. In Fullbrook, Edward ; Morgan, Jamie. Post-Neoliberal Economics (pp. 62-63). World Economics Association Books. Kindle Edition. )

  3. Gerald Holtham
    December 15, 2021 at 11:31 pm

    There is no arguing with some statements. Like this one: “The brunt of the problem is, as described by Georgescu-Roegen, that “in the long run or even in the not too long run the economic (as well as the biological) process is inevitably dominated by a qualitative change which cannot be known in advance” (NGR71:17) and which “eludes arithmomorphic schematization” (NGR71:63). ”
    Things that cannot be known in advance such as scientific discoveries leading to radical technological change not only elude “arithmomorphic schmatization” (whatever that is) they elude any systematic analysis at all. What conclusions do we draw from that? Because there are important things we cannot analyse and about which we can only speculate, there is no point in analysing those things which are susceptible to examination? It is an error to blame formalism in economics for its inability to specify qualitative change. Predicting qualitative changes is the domain of science fiction, not social science.
    Marx claimed there were laws of history. No-one believes that now but while Marx was wrong about that and about his predictions for the future, he nonetheless produced important insights into the nature of capitalist society and its tendencies to instability. Keynes was wrong in thinking that technological progress would lead to general sufficiency and a decline in work. Nevertheless his diagnosis of failures in aggregate demand and how to address them has improved the lives of many people subsequently. We have to know what we can and accept we can never know enough.

    • Meta Capitalism
      December 16, 2021 at 4:56 am

      Did you read the entire chapter or are you responding to a snippet only? It is, after all, only a snippet, a teaser, meant to get one to read the book ;-)

  4. Meta Capitalism
    December 17, 2021 at 8:33 am

    … “arithmomorphic schmatization” (whatever that is) ~ Gerald Holtham

    Good question! My initial guess was it was his way of characterizing the “mathematization” of economics that almost every history of economics book I have read covers. Every recent popular book on economics by economists addresses the issue (Mirowski 1989, Raworth 2017, Mazzucato 2018, 2021, etc.). Kay and King (2020, 93-94) called called in “mathiness”:

    Mathiness

    The belief that mathematical reasoning is more rigorous and precise than verbal reasoning, which is thought to be susceptible to vagueness and ambiguity, is pervasive in economics. In a celebrated attack on Nobel Prize winner and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, the Chicago economist John Cochrane wrote, ‘Math in economics serves to keep the logic straight, to make sure that the “then” really does follow the “if,” which it so frequently does not if you just write prose.’ But there is a difficulty here which appears to be much more serious in economics than it is in natural sciences: that of relating variables which are written down and manipulated in mathematical models to things that can be identified and measured in the real world. This is an aspect – perhaps the principal aspect – of a problem which Paul Romer, 2018 Nobel laureate, has described as ‘mathiness’. Romer points to concepts such as ‘investment specific technology shocks’ and ‘wage markup’ which are no more observable, or well defined, than toves or borogoves. They exist only within the model, which is rigorous only in the same sense as ‘Jabberwocky’ is rigorous; the meaning of each term is defined by the author, and the logic of the argument follows tautologically from these definitions. (Kay, John; King, Mervyn. Radical Uncertainty: Decision-Making Beyond the Numbers (p. 93). W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition. )

    In Through the Looking-Glass, Alice sensibly concluded that she needed to know more if she was to understand her situation, and had the good fortune to have an oracle close to hand:

    ‘You seem very clever at explaining words, Sir,’ said Alice.
    ‘Would you kindly tell me the meaning of the poem “Jabberwocky”?’
    ‘Let’s hear it,’ said Humpty Dumpty. ‘I can explain all the poems that ever were invented – and a good many that haven’t been invented just yet.’
    So Alice begins reading.
    ‘That’s enough to begin with,’ Humpty Dumpty interrupted: ‘there are plenty of hard words there. “Brillig” means four o’clock in the afternoon – the time when you begin broiling things for dinner.’
    ‘I see it now,’ Alice remarked thoughtfully: ‘and what are “toves”?’
    ‘Well, “toves” are something like badgers – they’re something like lizards – and they’re something like corkscrews.’
    ‘They must be very curious creatures.’
    ‘They are that,’ said Humpty Dumpty: ‘also they make their nests under sun-dials – also they live on cheese.’
    (Kay, John; King, Mervyn. Radical Uncertainty: Decision-Making Beyond the Numbers (pp. 93-94). W. W. Norton & Company. Kindle Edition.)

    Katharine N. Farrell in “Economics and the Ecosystem” explains further:

    Introduction: Georgescu-Roegen unheeded

    Economic analyses and conclusions are intimately bound up with judgements regarding the human condition. They are concerned with the study of what Marshall (1947, p. 1) referred to as “[hu]mankind in the ordinary business of life,” and dedicated to examine “that part of individual and social action which is most closely connected with the attainment and with the use of the material requisites of wellbeing,” (Ibid.). In that respect, economics is, from first principles, a normative enterprise. (Fullbrook, Edward. Economics and the Ecosystem (p. 39). World Economics Association. Kindle Edition.)

    While the idea that wellbeing and monetary wealth are so tightly correlated that the latter may be used as a proxy for the former was not an original premise of the early versions of economic analysis in European academic circles, and is today, increasingly brought into question not only from without but also from within mainstream economics, the presumption continues to influence the analytical apparatus used at all times by most, and at least sometimes by almost all scholars who understand themselves to be aligned with this field of enquiry. This is, as Georgescu-Roegen (1971) has noted, closely related to methodological choices made by some of the most important founding thinkers of this modern, euro-descendent, discipline: not least among them Pareto, Walras and Marshall himself.  He argues (Georgescu-Roegen, 1971, Introduction) that their aspiration to secure economics a place at the table of the “hard sciences”, led them to adopt an analytical approach of arithmetic fetishism (my words, not his) that leaves unattended the qualitative aspects of purposiveness and biodynamic transformation that lie at the heart of economic process: ignoring, thereby, aspects central to defining what constitutes the material requisites of wellbeing and to identifying viable means on the basis of which these may be attained and effectively used. (Fullbrook, Edward. Economics and the Ecosystem (pp. 39-40). World Economics Association. Kindle Edition. https://a.co/0JeCU7v )

    Georgescu-Roegen’s response to this, which he calls “wholesale arithmetization” (Georgescu-Roegen, 1971, p. 15), constructed through the elaboration of a wide range of arguments, over a period of decades (Georgescu-Roegen, 1960; 1965a; 1965b; 1966; 1968; 1969; 1975; 1976; 1977; 1981; 1986; 1988; 1999[1971]), includes detailed attention to two interrelated points:

    1. That economic processes are essentially biological in character.
    2. That institutions constitute a core and critical aspect of human biology. 

    These provide, in my view, an excellent reference structure for considering all three questions that have been posed for this brief intervention:

    1. How and to what degree is the economy changing the ecosystem? 
    2. How must economics change if it is to become a force for leading us away from catastrophe rather than toward it?
    3. How can the global economy be changed so as avoid ecological collapse?

    (Katharine N. Farrell. In Fullbrook, Edward. Economics and the Ecosystem (pp. 40-41). World Economics Association. Kindle Edition. https://a.co/hflsVcU)

  5. Gerald Holtham
    December 17, 2021 at 6:58 pm

    Economic systems in important respects are more like biological than mechanical systems, it’s true. One consequence is that they evolve in ways that cannot easily be predicted if at all. That make long-run forecasting a largely hopeless exercise. Economic systems like biological ones do have homeostatic mechanisms that keep them broadly stable and functioning, albeit with fluctuations in health and effectiveness. I believe too that the maths used for biological systems is likely to be more appropriate in economics than that used in deterministic physical systems and simulation experiments are more likely to produce usable insights than theorems derived from over-simple mathematical models. Economists interested in the laws of thermodynamics and the behavioural school have recognised that for several decades but have not managed to become the dominant strain in economics.

  6. Craig
    December 18, 2021 at 12:11 am

    “Adjustments to variables, parameters and reference data can all contribute to improving models, but they do not necessarily address the ontological limitation that, in the original liberal theory “representation, [read that of Jevons and Walras] the economic process neither induces any qualitative change nor is affected by the qualitative change of the environment into which it is anchored”

    This could be a statement made by a Ptolemaic cosmologist right before Galileo observed the moons of Jupiter confirming the possibility of Copernicus’ hypothesis (or whatever Islamic astronomer preceded him).

    There is no qualitative change until paradigm change occurs because paradigms are PATTERNS, thus they change the nature of the ENTIRETY of the pattern, making every other prior theory or reform logically and by definition, palliative. Ironically, it’s true reductive research and iconoclasm precede paradigm change, but the key to perceiving paradigms is actually simplicity not complexity. This is because paradigms are single/singular concepts and deep simplicities. You want qualitative change think about the essences and operant factors that prior research/iconoclasm have identified as problematic and discover the most efficacious applications of the single concept that leads to resolution.

    • yoshinorishiozawa
      December 18, 2021 at 12:34 am

      It is true that we need paradigm change in economics. The core of this change must be the price theory. There are two price theories: one assumes the law of demand and supply (including Marshallian scissors and Walrasian general equilibrium), another is the cost of production theory of value. See my arguments in Section 3 “Comparison of two value systems” in my paper A new framework for analyzing technological change. In my not-very-humble opinion, paradigm change is already done. “Copernican” system in economics is already discovered but people do not want to admit it, probably because “Ptolemaic” system is more comfortable for many people, for conventional economists in particular.

  7. yoshinorishiozawa
    December 18, 2021 at 12:13 am

    [Economic systmes] evolve in ways that cannot easily be predicted if at all. That make long-run forecasting a largely hopeless exercise. (Gerald Holtham’s post on December 17 in this page)

    Gerald is right. Then, what should be do? And what can we do? One thing is evident: we should do what we can do.

    Economic growth is strongly conditioned by technological evolution. Although we may observe some vague directions for it, it is impossible to know what will happen exactly when and how and to what extent. Even in such situation, we can know something like the increase of the real wage level when new production techniques come to be known. See my paper that I cited in my first post in this page (Theorem 1 in Section 4 in particular).

    I do not believe that there are mechanical and biological maths. The truth is that the toolbox of mathematics is not yet wide and large enough to analyze all complex phenomena. It is therefore important to develop new mathematics that are suitable for analyzing them. It is much more constructive than denouncing mathematics in general.

    • Meta Capitalism
      December 18, 2021 at 4:38 am

      I do not believe that there are mechanical and biological maths. The truth is that the toolbox of mathematics is not yet wide and large enough to analyze all complex phenomena. It is therefore important to develop new mathematics that are suitable for analyzing them. It is much more constructive than denouncing mathematics in general. (Shiozawa Yoshinori, RWER, Making Straw Men Argument)

      No authors in Post-Neoliberal Economics, nor pretty much any author from the books published by RWER that I have read, have made the argument, even remotely, that it is right or necessary or appropriate to denounce “mathematics generally.”

      Shiozawa’s meretricious rhetoric lacks fundamental integrity in that he knows this full well, but chooses to use disingenuous rhetoric to attempt to mislead others for self-serving purposes, i.e., to hawk his book, papers, and pet theory never bothering to either read or fairly and professionally represent what is actually being said. Math per se never has been nor ever will be the problem, but rather a certain kind of fetishization of math that some so-called scientists have exemplified throughout history right up to today.

      Even mathematicians have the basic common sense to make this distinction. Apparently Shiozawa is an exception.

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