Home > Uncategorized > Democracy versus capitalism: take two

Democracy versus capitalism: take two

From: Peter Radford

My post last week has elicited a number of lengthy and interesting responses. Rather than answer one at a time I thought I would clarify and extend on my original thoughts.

This comment, by Ken Zimmerman, is my starting point:

Per the latest edition of Samuelson’s “Economics” the 2007-2009 financial crisis was bad, but it followed a half-century of spectacular increases in the living standards of most of the world, particularly those living in the affluent countries of North America, Western Europe, and East Asia. The book asks will these successes be repeated in the 21st Century, will the affluence spread to the poor countries? Or will the four horsemen of the economic apocalypse — famine, war, environmental degradation and depression — spread to the North? According to Samuelson and Nordhaus these are the questions this newest version of the number one selling Introduction to Economics textbook seeks to answer. You’ll notice little is said here about democracy. But elsewhere in the text Samuelson and Nordhaus talk of democracy and a market economy as the twin goals sought in Eastern Europe, China, and the former Soviet Union. What the protestors in these places protested against was socialism and what they protested for was “the hope that they many enjoy the freedom and economic prosperity of democratic market economics.” So Peter as far as the top Economics textbook is concerned you are dead wrong. And believe me this textbook reaches a lot more students and people in general than blog posts anywhere on any blog. That being the case, how would you suggest Samuelson and Nordhaus change their textbook, or in the alternative how would you change your position so that market economics and democracy work together? Samuelson and Nordhaus are smart guys. I would not want to dismiss what they say without a full hearing.

Here in a nutshell is the problem: economics writers, in their zeal to proselytize free markets, ignore that society has learned, the hard way, that those very free markets need to be severely hemmed in. Else the damage to society from the excesses of capitalism can, and often do, more than offset the benefits.

I do not have access to the textbook mentioned above so I cannot be specific in my response to Zimmerman, but the phrase that captures the issue succinctly is the one I have highlighted in bold text.

Let’s parse it out.

Note the conflation of “freedom and economic prosperity”. Those are two distinct phenomena. Freedom and economic prosperity are not ineluctably linked. More to the point: freedom and democracy are definitely not the same thing.

Freedom, as we find it hidden in the subtext of classical economics is freedom to own and dispense with private property. In this case the concept of property extends to include natural resources wherever it is possible to ‘privatize’ them. It is not a reference to any other notion of freedom as we may have come to think of it. It does not, for instance, include the freedom to vote or participate in society’s governance. It is a much more limited and specific notion with respect to economics.

Put it another way: the freedom to choose, to borrow Milton Friedman’s book title, is, within the realm of economics, the freedom to decide how to use private property for private gain. It is a very specific and pointed freedom. It is couched in terms of being antithetical to government control of decision making. In this vein perhaps the most vivid articulation of economic freedom is not Friedman, but Hayek. Economists in this tradition see most, if not all, government restrictions or activity within the economy as being antagonistic towards freedom.

This is what motivated Reagan to issue the rallying cry against Medicare. His speech decrying Medicare as the thin end of creeping socialism is often quoted by contemporary conservatives.

So when we read textbook economists talking about the intertwining of freedom and economic prosperity they are talking in very narrow and very specific terms. They are not talking about democracy, but about property rights.

Capitalism, as we know it, is simply the systemic manifestation of private property rights: people can do whatever they want with the resources available to them without regard to the social consequences. And the collective forum through which they exercise this right is called  a market. So a market is a social construct for the use, and/or abuse, of personal property rights as manifested by the exchange of resources, and the output of those resources. Uninhibited exchange, along with the prior condition of private property rights, is the core of capitalism.

Notice, however, that a market is a social construct. It takes two or more to tango. This social aspect has led to a series of modifications. Most importantly it has led to rules to protect those property rights. Contract law being an example. And the enforcement of property rights is the centerpiece of ‘allowable’ government intervention in the economy. So to libertarians and textbook economists the role of government ought to be limited to the protection of the individual’s right to own and dispense with property.

This is very far from most modern government. Hence the constant conservative attack on modern government.

But what is modern government?

I see it as a manifestation of democracy.

Think of the historical context in which democracy evolved.

Property rights were carved out of pre-existing authoritarian governance structures. The old aristocracies of Europe managed to force monarchs to surrender absolute and arbitrary control over property in return for the right to raise taxes. The aristocrats thus gained control over their property and promised to pay taxes based upon that, now protected, property. This was the first small step away from absolutism.

Next, as the need for taxes kept creeping up due to the rising cost of waging monarchical warfare, came the extension of property rights to a broader class of landowners. From here came the first representative governments. Representative, that is, of people who owned property. This is not democracy. It is, however, an extension of freedom.

This is the point at which modern economics begins to be conceived and written. The early classical writers were all obsessed with ‘proving’ that free markets – defined by private property rights being protected from arbitrary monarchical intrusion – created greater wealth for society at large, and hence the monarch too, than closed or restricted markets did. That was the question being posed by the early economists. It was natural that the conflation of freedom and economic growth took place. It was politically astute. And it was empirically justified. Those economies with the most advanced set of private property rights were, indeed, the most prosperous.

Prosperous especially for those with property.

Those without property were advancing too. But at extreme cost. Life expectancy and other measures of social welfare were collapsing as industrialization changed the landscape and lifestyles permanently.

Capitalism, as the combination of political and economic freedom was now called, was self-evidently a major success. The side effects and social consequences were dire.

To understand the nature of the discussion we can read the Ricardo and Malthus dialogs. Their references to workers are extraordinary for the dismissive moralizing and cynical disregard. Then, of course, there is Marx who lauded the wealth production of capitalism but abhorred it social ramifications.

At this point two directions appeared open: continuation of a restricted freedom and limited representative governance of society; or a Marx inspired march towards socialism. The middle way of democracy was a hard fought for compromise. It was resisted by conservatives as a precursor to socialism. The tyranny of the masses, don’t forget, is what stopped democracy from being America’s early form of government, and the series of social upheavals rocking Europe from the 1780′s through to 1848 simply strengthened conservative opposition to any broadening of the right to vote and thus to anything remotely like modern democracy.

But the excesses of capitalism came to be too much. The hardship and exploitation embodied in early industrialization led to both the Trade Union movement and to other social changes. The right to vote became pivotal in the fight against those excesses.

In other words: the creation of modern democracy was a reaction to, and very much in opposition to, capitalism. It was, from the outset, designed to mitigate the excesses. It was not at all to foster freedom, but to limit it. This limitation coming in the paradoxical form of extending participation in government even to those without property. The very definition of freedom was thus amended. Freedom was now the right to vote regardless of property ownership, which was still protected, but which was now abridged.

The creation of income tax is a clear indication of the new definition of freedom. It was a major intrusion into private property rights. But the benefits, the funding of society wide projects and the ability to finance wars without taxing property alone, offset this intrusion. It was victory for democracy over the older definition of freedom. It has been decried ever since by conservatives.

This has been a long exposition, but it is necessary. Economics textbooks still use the older, restricted, definition of freedom. And they sloppily elide the tension between democratic action to mitigate the effects of free markets and the action of the purist capitalism they preach. This is why textbook economics treats institutions, politics, and other constraints on markets so badly: the limited view of freedom within economics forces those things to be regarded as external to the problem it is trying to solve. Yet those things are the stuff of democracy, they are critical subject matter for understanding modern society. Economics omits them. Worse it treats them as hindrances to the proper working of free markets and thus propagates and anti-democractic story even while it lauds democratic market prosperity.

None of this implies that democracy and capitalism cannot be symbiotic. Of course they can. Indeed, the creation of modern democracy is the greatest bulwark against socialism that capitalists can ask for.

Hayek’s impassioned warning against creeping socialism has been proven wrong. By extending government action within the economy to provide health and retirement insurance, and to mitigate some of the other antisocial consequences of the unbridled exercise of private property rights, democracy has spread the wealth sufficiently to prevent to very slide into socialism that Hayek, and Reagan, were so anxious about. By allowing the majority to share more directly in the spoils democratic government has allowed capitalism to survive longer than Marx considered likely.

But we should never, ever, forget that the two systems are in constant counterpoise. Democracy balances and thus enables capitalism. It may complement it, but that is a complementation born of watchfulness and concern, not of not of simple cheerleading.

Why is this important to remember?

Because the capitalists resent the intrusion of democracy. They are always trying to revert back to the old definitions of freedom and its focus on private property.

This last election can be seen through that prism. Why else was Romney decrying the 47%? Why else do contemporary Republicans scorn the voters who elected Obama as being the ones who benefit from big government? These complaints are simply a recognition of democracy at work. They are examples of the new freedom that democracy brings to those without property, both to express themselves and to demand a share in the spoils.

That economics textbooks muddle this all up and confuse or conflate the political system with the economic system is a major ideological faux pas. People in Eastern Europe may very well clamor for economic freedom and democracy. That’s because they know that they need both. Without democracy they won’t be sharing in the spoils of economic freedom. In other words the economics textbooks purport to show how a society can generate wealth. They cannot demonstrate how to share that wealth.

Capitalism solves the first of those problems. Democracy solves the second.

The tyranny of the majority isn’t a tyranny at all if you are part of the majority. Capitalism benefits only those with property. The trick is to balance both so that neither destroys the other.

And in order to find that balance we need to understand that, unbalanced, they will indeed destroy each other. Or at least one will dominate sufficiently to give the appearance of destruction of the other. Which is where we are today in our deregulated world, its massive inequality, and the urge to introduce austerity policies that will hurt the majority.

Which is what I was talking about to begin with

  1. Fonseca-Statter
    April 12, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    Once hundred percent correct, Peter…
    The other thing that seems to be missing from the writings of «textbook economists» is the idea that the Economy is an evolving organic and historical system. With plenty of «feed-back loops» whose temporalities are very rarely understood, let alone discussed.

  2. sergio
    April 12, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    I don’t understand what kind of freedom in capitalism do they talk about? For ordinary worker the freedom of capitalism is to work 15 hours a day, OR to die as inefficient labor force. Is this “choice” is democracy?

  3. April 12, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    Even if 80 percent makes sense, the other 20 percent completely destroys any sense of
    coherence. Here is an example for a need to define terms clearly and stick with them
    rigorously. Capitalism is defined several times differently and democracy is not defined
    at all.

    There is nothing “hidden” about freedom from property rights, as is suggested, “Freedom,
    as we find it hidden in the subtext of classical economics is freedom to own and dispense
    with private property.” Capitalism is specifically this form of freedom, and not
    necessarily anything else. So I agree that “It is not a reference to any other notion of
    freedom as we may have come to think of it.” Nor does capitalism necessarily imply
    democracy, in agreement with the rest of that paragraph. For example China is capitalist
    in the sense of having individual property rights, but is not a democracy.

    You said, “Capitalism, as we know it, is simply the systemic manifestation of private
    property rights: people can do whatever they want with the resources available to them
    without regard to the social consequences.” This is a doubtful assertion that anyone can
    exercise their property rights, “without regard to the social consequences”.

    The exercise of property rights do not include infringing on other people’s property
    rights, nor acting irresponsibly, such in “markets” for money laundering, drug
    trafficking, arms dealing etc. Existing prohibitions contradict another one of your
    assertions of capitalism, “Uninhibited exchange, along with the prior condition of private
    property rights, is the core of capitalism.” On the contrary, capitalism does not imply
    uninhibited exchange.

    The statement, “the creation of modern democracy was a reaction to, and very much in
    opposition to, capitalism”, is simply false. Capitalism needed democracy, because it is
    the only system which can depose any government threatening to annex or abolish private
    property. (The recent actions of the EU make governments and therefore democracy
    irrelevant.)

    This article is very muddled with self-contradictory statements such as, “None of this
    implies that democracy and capitalism cannot be symbiotic.” and “capitalists resent the
    intrusion of democracy”. You said, “Capitalism benefits only those with property”, which is really saying “Ownership of property benefits only those with property.” Duh.

    Neoclassical economics is clear and wrong, while non-neoclassical economics is muddled and
    wrong.

  4. April 12, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Even if 80 percent makes sense, the other 20 percent completely destroys any sense of coherence. Here is an example for a need to define terms clearly and stick with them rigorously. Capitalism is defined several times differently and democracy is not defined at all.

    There is nothing “hidden” about freedom from property rights, as is suggested, “Freedom, as we find it hidden in the subtext of classical economics is freedom to own and dispense with private property.” Capitalism is specifically this form of freedom, and not necessarily anything else. So I agree that “It is not a reference to any other notion of freedom as we may have come to think of it.” Nor does capitalism necessarily imply democracy, in agreement with the rest of that paragraph. For example China is capitalist in the sense of having individual property rights, but is not a democracy.

    You said, “Capitalism, as we know it, is simply the systemic manifestation of private property rights: people can do whatever they want with the resources available to them without regard to the social consequences.” This is a doubtful assertion that anyone can exercise their property rights, “without regard to the social consequences”.

    The exercise of property rights do not include infringing on other people’s property rights, nor acting irresponsibly, such in “markets” for money laundering, drug trafficking, arms dealing etc. Existing prohibitions contradict another one of your assertions of capitalism, “Uninhibited exchange, along with the prior condition of private property rights, is the core of capitalism.” On the contrary, capitalism does not imply uninhibited exchange.

    The statement, “the creation of modern democracy was a reaction to, and very much in opposition to, capitalism”, is simply false. Capitalism needed democracy, because it is the only system which can depose any government threatening to annex or abolish private property. (The recent actions of the EU make governments and therefore democracy irrelevant.)

    This article is very muddled with self-contradictory statements such as, “None of this implies that democracy and capitalism cannot be symbiotic.” and “capitalists resent the intrusion of democracy”. You said, “Capitalism benefits only those with property”, which is really saying “Ownership of property benefits only those with property.” Duh.

    Neoclassical economics is clear and wrong, while non-neoclassical economics is muddled and wrong.

    • Fonseca-Statter
      April 12, 2013 at 2:45 pm

      Would you care to expand on your statement «while non-neoclassical economics is muddled and wrong».
      What exactly is «wrong» and what exacly is «muddled» ?…
      And which one of the non-neoclassical approaches do you have in mind?…
      The original Marxism?… The original Keynesianism?… The German Historical School?… The American Institutionalism?…

      • April 12, 2013 at 6:08 pm

        Muddled=lacking in precision, clarity and consistency. Wrong=untrue, unscientific and illogical. All economics is unscientific. Marxism, Keynesianism and German Historical School are muddled in their fundamental ideas. .

  5. April 12, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    The term “Property Rights” needs to be unpacked. It comprises rights over land and natural resources, not the product of human labour, and rights over wealth. Wealth, property defined, means the products of human labour. Until the two are distinguished, no coherent analysis is possible.

    If one takes as a starting point the principle that property belongs to the one whose labour went into its production, there can be no right of land ownership. Advocates of “capitalism” normally blur the issue. If pushed, they will use the defective argument put forward by Locke.

    This confusion has been perpetuated by, amongst others, Marx and Pope Leo XIII and the subsequent authors of the Catholic Social Teaching documents,

  6. William Neil
    April 12, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Peter:

    Thank you very much for this. I have to thank the Tea Party and the American Right’s obsession with our “founding fathers” for sending me first to Gordon Wood, then JGA Pocock for an exploration of the “Atlantic republican Tradition.” Discussions of Rome abound, and our founders had Romans on the brain, by all accounts. So I’ve had to take up Roman history to see what they were leaving out (since the founders tended to focus on the late, decaying Republic.) But what I discovered were two periods when debtors and small landowners revolted; the first was very early, 5th century, BC, when the plebians actually physically seceded, withdrew outside the boundaries of the city of Rome, and set up a parallel society, thereby threatening the structure of the Roman army, whose soldiers needed to own property to serve…with the yeomanry of small farms numerically dominant (but not in power); this first great clash then between plebes and patricians was debt driven, but was solved peacefully, and led to the rise of the “tribunes of the people.” But I never encountered this in all my American history and poly sci work (see Robert Dahl’s vague reference to 500 hundred year history of the Roman republic.

    The second great land/debt clash was not resolved peacefully, with the Gracchi revolts of the early second century BC; these were open “left” revolts on behalf of returning long serving army veterans having lost their land, Senate oligarchs having gobbled some of it up, and mounting debts as well…the Senate would not tolerate the Gracchi’s methods, which broke precedent (think filibusters?) and both were eventually murdered by senate influenced armed mobs…I’m relying on the accounts by Michael Grant…so I think the republic, which was an oligarchy all along, tempered by some mobility and the informal mechanism of the patron-client relationship which transfused all relations in society (something which I never heard about)…so here’s the point: what I’ve read so far to fill in my own Roman history supports what you say above…the republic broke down at the point where pre-capitalist economic troubles could not be resolved between debtors and small property owners and the senatorial patricians….much later, Julius Caesar had to weigh in with genuine genius in carrying out reforms…but with dictatorial powers…and the military successes had by then complicated the picture I have sketched above by the massive importation of slaves and growing urbanization created a genuine lupenproletariet of propertyless workers in Rome itself.

    I have to chuckle a bit that despite all we learn about our Founders Roman obsessions, we didn’t hear about these two great revolts which centered on debt, land and property rights. Yet with events of the 1780’s and 1790’s on their front and center, they surely must have drawn silent lessons. And I’ll be damned, didn’t Richard Hofstadter chide TR for drawing a blank in his Harvard assignment on the Gracchi period? ! (“The Conservative as Progressive,” in “The American Political Tradition.)

    Thoughts or comments?

  7. sergio
    April 12, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    Why capitalism did not bring prosperity to former Soviet Union? Because nobody really knows what is capitalism, how it works and how to make it.

  8. BC
    April 12, 2013 at 11:53 pm

    It is said that the US is a “capitalist” economy and society; however, 90% of the population have no capital, cannot acquire any of significance, and never will have any. In the meantime, the top 1-10% of households own 85% of financial wealth and receive half of all US income.

    Moreover, US bank assets, including the assets of the Fed, which the banks effectively own, are equivalent to 100% of GDP and 100% of US equity market capitalization.

    Therefore, the banks (and their principal shareholders) own claims in the form of imputed compounding interest to effectively infinite term on all US labor product, profits, and gov’t receipts in perpetuity. There can be no growth of real GDP per capita when all output is already pledged for all eternity to the rentier owners of the int’l banking syndicate.

    And, of course, gov’t is owned by the top 0.1-1% and exists to enforce this neo-feudal rentier system of ownership, income distribution, and economic, social, and political power relations.

    Socialism depends upon the surplus generated by capitalist bank lending, i.e., debt-money creation, extraction, production, imperial wars, capital accumulation, and exploitation of labor and ecosystems.

    So-called “capitalists” are said to abhor socialism, that is, except when the resources and power of the state are deployed in service of the “capitalists” at home and around the globe.

    Finally, eCONomists’ job is to intellectually rationalize this imperial, neo-feudal system for which they are rewarded, perpetually reinforcing the patent BS generation after the next.

    Nice gig if one can get it. The problem is that the bottom 90%+ ain’t gettin’ it and never will.

  9. sergio
    April 13, 2013 at 2:55 am

    Economics is not neutral to ideology. Economics exists only to promote capitalism, particularly this role was very important in times of ideological confrontation between socialism. At primitive level of unrealistic assumptions they try to use mathematics, as much as they can. But where mathematics is useless they just say that capitalism is freedom and democracy and it should be taken as axiom. At the mathematical level they fail to explain what is so bad with socialism. Economics is just pure ideology and methods it uses are very similar to that of organized religion.

  10. Ken Zimmerman
    April 13, 2013 at 5:59 am

    At the very beginning of “The Wealth of Nations” Smith sets out his argument for what determines the wealth of a nation. “The annual labour of every nation is the fund which originally supplies it with all the necessaries and conveniencies of life which it annually consumes, and which consist always either in the immediate produce of that labour, or in what is purchased with that produce from other nations. According, therefore, as this produce, or what is purchased with it, bears a greater or smaller proportion to the number of those who are to consume it, the nation will be better or worse supplied with all the necessaries and conveniencies for which it has occasion. But this proportion must in every nation be regulated by two different circumstances: first, by the skill, dexterity, and judgment with which its labour is generally applied; and, secondly, by the proportion between the number of those who are employed in useful labour, and that of those who are not so employed. Whatever be the soil, climate, or extent of territory of any particular nation, the abundance or scantiness of its annual supply must, in that particular situation, depend upon those two circumstances.” So division of labor is the secret behind a nation’s wealth or lack thereof.
    Smith, Adam (2011-04-29). The Wealth of Nations (Illustrated) . Unknown. Kindle Edition.

    Many pages later Smith sets out some thoughts about the enemies of a nation’s wealth. Smith warned of the tendency for collusive among business interests, in such forms as cabals or monopolies, by which prices are fixed at the highest level which can be squeezed out of the buyers. Smith also warned that a business-dominated political system would allow a conspiracy of businesses and industry against consumers, with the former scheming to influence politics and legislation. Smith clearly states that the interest of manufacturers and merchants is always in some respects different from, and even opposite to, that of the public. Any new law or regulation of commerce emerging from this set of arrangements should be always considered with great caution and suspicion, and adopted in whole or in part on only after long and careful examination. Smith also makes clear that the division of labor pushed to its extreme will destroy all of civilization.

    Conclusion: Adam Smith knew quite well and expressed it that the so called “invisible hand” could destroy as well as build societies. He also knew that the mercantile and capitalist interest groups could in the pursuit of wealth and control suppress all other groups and interests. His solution, government would be the instrument to prevent division of labor from proceeding to its limits. So the neoclassical economists and certainly the neoliberals have not so much misread than selectively read Smith. Peter, it seems then that you and Smith are more allies than foes. It’s actually enjoyable to watch neoclassical economists and neoliberal thinkers cringe when you bring up these unwelcome parts of Smith.

    As to the textbook by Paul Samuelson and William Nordhaus I quote, the book “sort of” and “around the edges” recognizes and accepts these parts of Smith, perhaps more so than any prior edition of the book (this is the 19th edition). Perhaps than means neoclassical economics is finally getting comfortable with the entirety of the work of its founding saint. Or at least Samuelson and Nordhaus are. They can hardly ignore these parts of Smith’s work any longer in light of the abject failure of neoclassical economics and neoliberal politics over the last 30 years. Now the big question – what sorts of economic arrangements and designs are in our future and who and what will be involved in creating them?

  11. Fonseca-Statter
    April 13, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    «Muddled=lacking in precision, clarity and consistency.
    Wrong=untrue, unscientific and illogical. All economics is unscientific. Marxism, Keynesianism and German Historical School are muddled in their fundamental ideas».

    Thank you, lionwiss, for the dictionary definition…
    Unfortunately the repetition (even if «ad infinitum»…) of any definition and/or an opinion does not add an iota of better understanding to whatever is at issue.
    But then we have to live and work in a world where it seems that some people believe there is such a thing as a «true», «clear» or «exact» science…
    «Physics is very muddled again at the moment; it is much too hard for me anyway, and I wish I were a movie comedian or something like that and had never heard anything about physics!» – Wolfgang Pauli, 1925

  12. Conelrad
    April 13, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Two additional factors need to be included in discussions of democracy and capitalism:

    1) the commons

    2) co-operatives

    General absence of the former from academic and public discussion has, among other things, facilitated private takings of common property by a tiny group of capitalists. (See Alperovitz and Daly’s _Unjust Deserts_.)

    Mostly silence on the latter has, for example, confined ownership and control of capital to that sliver of society.

    The net effect is the hollowing out of democracy. As Brandeis put it, “We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can’t have both.”

  13. April 14, 2013 at 7:30 am

    There is a list of 150 economists who can’t distinguish economics from politics here:

  14. Ken Zimmerman
    April 14, 2013 at 8:20 am

    Interesting, but even if you accept the good faith and credibility of all 150 of these economists they remain a “drop in the bucket” of the 18,000 members of the American Economic Association. Now if 1,000 had signed then Speaker Boehner’s letter might be worth consideration. What’s really remarkable is that Boehner could find only 150 to sign the letter. Then there is the whole issue of the credibility and believability of the individuals who signed the letter. According to Media Matters 43 of these economists signed an earlier letter declaring President Bush’s tax cuts “fiscally responsible.” Media Matters also points out some of the statements by the signers that put their integrity, not to mention their good sense in question:
    John Cogan: “It’s Wrong To Allow Surpluses.”
    Kevin Hassett, co-author of the 1999 book “Dow 36,000: The New Strategy for Profiting From the Coming Rise in the Stock Market,”
    Allan H. Meltzer: “Investment Banks Don’t Need The [Federal Reserve] To Regulate Them.”
    Art Laffer: Despite Concerns From Economists, Laffer Predicted That The Economy Was In Good Shape And Bet That There Would Not Be A Crash.
    Luke Froeb: “It All Comes Down To Whether You Trust Markets Or You Don’t Trust Markets.”
    Benjamin Zycher: Michelle Obama Is The Product Of “Affirmative-Action Coddling.”
    Thomas C. Rustici: “In November We Will Kick Your Asses Out And Save This
    Republic From Your Socialistic Tyranny.”
    David G. Tuerck: Obama Embraces Marxism “In His Heart Of Hearts.”
    Timothy P. Roth: “Virtually Everything The Federal Government Does Is Unconstitutional.”
    Charles W. Baird: Unionizing Will Send Public University Into “Academic Mediocrity Or Worse.”
    Plus 38 of the economists work for or are affiliated with organizations that have received money from the Koch brothers. Not a condemnation in its own right but certainly an area of concern. As Upton Sinclair pointed out a while back, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

  15. davetaylor1
    April 14, 2013 at 10:28 pm

    This seems to be a splendid discussion, given no-one is likely to see everything. I too would give Peter 8 out 10, but that’s not marking down his coherence, it’s marking up his helpfulness in distinguishing the wood from the trees. My criticisms are of his missing the point by reliance on post-Reformation economic history, wherein the monetary basis of Capitalism, the United Nations-like moral authority of the Catholic church, and the role of Providence/Nature in the creation and maintenance of Wealth, have already been rubbed out. What’s missing is a long but interesting story

    The degeneration of Democracy and Economics into demagogy and chrematistics were already being discussed by Aristotle, but Christians, inspired by the relationships between the Apostles and the Benedictine organisation of work, evolved a heirarchical system in which the Pope and King were first among equals and a sort of Parliamentary democracy evolved in which different points of view are aired by a cross-section of different types of leader. The religious centre presided over the different countries, but conversely its council members represented the different countries. Fragments of this have come down in the jury system and the story of King Arthur and his round table; in ancient cathedrals one can still see round Chapter houses. Given the devastation caused by indebtedness recorded in pre-Christian Israel, the church banned usury and promoted the Christian model of kingship: protector and servant of his people and tenant (holder) of God’s land rather than conqueror and enslaver; at the bottom of the secular hierarchy slaves were transformed into serfs with tenant’s rights to their own bit of property as well as their duties to their masters; independent trades were organised on the Roman “guild” model (originally devised as a method of “divide and rule” by leaving people fighting each other rather than Caesar), wherein competing master-craftsmen disciplined unfair trading by agreeing fair prices. [I.e., the “market” operated between equal suppliers rather than between suppliers and unequal customers, leaving producers competing on quality rather than price]. At household level, women were protected by chastity ideals and the prohibition of divorce.

    As More documents in “Utopia” (1516), all this was beginning to unravel with summary evictions to make room for sheep farming and enclosures, in violation of tenant’s rights. When England’s Henry VIII flouted the chastity rules and wasn’t allowed to trade in his legal wife for a younger model, he resolved the issue by making himself head of the church and giving himself a divorce. Needing to prevent Catholic rebellion at home, he executed and/or seized the assets of the rebels. With opportunist fighting already going on between Protestants and Catholics, he feared invasion from Catholic France and sought to rearm his navy. Having been found out adulterating the currency, as head of the church he privatised church property and raised loans from Protestant supporters, won by selling them this and other seized assets at knock-down prices. Rearmed his ships with all the latest gadgetry, he overdid it, and the flagship of his collateral, the Mary Rose, capsized and sank before it left Portsmouth harbour. In lieu of the anticipated spoils of war, Henry was forced to re-legalise usury and pay interest on the loan.

    Thereafter, England entered a cruel period of virtual and even open civil war, presided over alternately by Protestant winners and Catholic losers until the “Glorious Revolution” of 1688, when the Dutch Protestant William of Orange was invited in to oust the latest Catholic-leaning king. This, logically, is the point at which Capitalism proper was introduced. Seeing how William was able to financed his war by loans from a Bank of Amsterdam backed merely by pledges expressing the mutual trust of the citizens of Amsterdam, the financiers in the City of London disappeared behind closed doors and hatched a fraudulent version of this wherein pledges of mutual trust were replaced by contracts engineering trust by committing borrowers to forfeit of their assets in the event of default. By 1694, they had set up their Bank of England and kept their mercenary king happy as a constitutional figurehead on a generous pension financed on credit backed by a National Debt. A Stock Market in contracts of entitlement to assets was created. Limited Liability ostensibly protected shared enterprises but surreptitiously, fractional reserve banking: a more sophicated version of the medieval “Goldsmith’s Fraud”. Its subsequent history in America has now been very fully documented in “The Money Masters” video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv-ZCj1_HHI ]. This, I suggest, is the system properly called Capitalism. With virtually unlimited credit thus made available to insiders, Britain soon became an Empire littered with large estates and stately homes, factories, transport infrastructure and minimal worker accomodation.

    Eighty years on, Adam Smith hadn’t been party to this and was a historian and moral philosopher, not an insider. Although an acute observer of human nature, he is describing what he sees or has been told, not what has been carefully hidden. The material indexed under “money” is fascinating, for in effect it assumes the gold standard (i.e. barter), that “paper can never exceed the value of the cash of which it supplies the want”, and that the “barbarous practices” of Ponzi schemes have long been indulged in by merchants (i.e. not banks). What it does note and the simplifications of neo-classical and the academies implicitly deny is that “the great wheel of circulation is altogether different from the goods which are circulated by means of it”.

    The point anyway is that Peter’s analysis makes no mention of the “great wheel” of money, identifying capitalism with the right to exchange goods; nor does Ken’s stimulating appreciation of Smith. I see that I’m agreeing with Henry Law: “The term “Property Rights” needs to be unpacked”. I marked Peter down for this, for if exchange is between goods and money which is not a good, on the pretext that it is, and freedom is predicated on the lie, then hard won democracy ameliorating the social consequences is not going to solve the problem. Its real job has to be enabling all types of people to understand the lie and legally reassert what Good Pope John called (in a resounding phrase) “the reciprocity of rights and duties”.

    I marked Peter up again (and thank him) for an exposition which motivated me to get involved.

  16. Fred Zaman
    April 21, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    The Great Seal: A Rosetta Stone for the democracy-capitalist divide?

    Although it heralds itself as being such, the United States of America isn’t a true democracy in which majority rule consistently dominates. What in truth it is is a hybrid “capitalist democracy” that often is politically dominated behind closed doors by America’s corporate elite. It is a constitutionally framed capitalism democratized in such a way that the US, while giving the appearance of being a true democracy in which the majority rule, generally is not. A critical view of the Great Seal of the United States, which symbolizes what the US intends in principle, can help to clarify this more complex reality.
    The obverse and reverse sides of the Great Seal, critically examined, respectively can be seen to be political symbols of democracy and capitalism; which historically it turns out are in constant conflict economically, politically, ands socially. The obverse side, the eagle holding the banner E pluribus unum in its beak along with the olive branch and arrows grasped in its claws, symbolizes the US as the defender of democracy and the peace; while the reverse side, America’s novus ordo seclorum represented by the unfinished pyramid and its approving eye of the divine (annuit coeptis), abstractly symbolizes the US as – above all else — the champion of capitalism (economic laissez faire qua the free market, free trade, and free enterprise).

    The obverse side of the Great Seal, symbolizing the US as the defender of democracy, is well known. The reverse side, however, seems to requires additional comment. What the unfinished pyramid and the divine eye setting atop, which is seeing to the pyramid’s “completion” (capitalism’s global rule?), apparently symbolize is capitalism’s rule over all things economic, political, and social; the mottos novus ordo seclorum and annuit coeptis of which, politically behind closed doors, de facto reduce to an elitist E paucibus unum (out of a few, one); which, in support of capitalism’s elitist novus ordo seclorum, quite often, as it seems necessary, contravenes – again behind closed doors – the nation’s democratic E pluribus unum on the obverse side of the Great Seal. The two sides of the Great Seal, together, thus are symbolic of a hybrid “democratized capitalism” in which the “one” that is “of the few” (capitalism’s ruling elite) generally dominates politically over democratic processes in America, by virtue of the accumulated (and now rapidly increasing) wealth, power, and privilege of the few – created by capitalism; so that in America capitalism’s E paucibus unum dominates de facto over democracy’s E pluribus unum.

    Democratic processes, in America’s hybridization of capitalism and democracy thus symbolized by the Great Seal, generally have been subservient to the laissez faire philosophy/ideology of the free market, free trade, and free enterprise; which subservience has been amply demonstrated in American history, and in the politics of the day; which historically thus validates the critical examination of the true political significance of the Great Seal of the United States put forward here. The agenda of America’s “hybrid democracy” thus generally is to – in support of capitalism’s de facto motto of E paucibus unum – always promote democratic processes that enable laissez faire in the marketplace, in trade and commerce, and in capitalist enterprise; while at the same time, to the extent possible and by whatever means available (whether ethical or not), behind closed doors subverting democratic processes whose opposed E pluribus unum could enable the US government to limit – for any reason whatever – the freedom of the marketplace, trade and commerce, and capitalist enterprise. Blocking any opposition to capitalism’s E paucibus unum by democracy’s E pluribus unum is the Holy Grail of American capitalism symbolized by the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States of America. The “reverse” side of which, however, is never displayed on US official documents; but which, thanks to FDR, nevertheless is prominently displayed on the one-dollar bill. The Great Seal, as understood by President Roosevelt it seems, is exactly symbolic of America’s more complex political reality in which democracy and capitalism are in constant political opposition. Novus ordo seclorum, in its placement on the backside of the Great Seal, arguably portrays the “behind the door” character of capitalism’s subversion of democracy’s E pluribus unum on the front side; through which subversion capitalism’s E paucibus unum dominates over democracy’s E pluribus unum. The Great Seal of the United States it seems, critically examined for its deeper political significance, truly can be America’s political Rosetta Stone.

    US foreign policy mirrors the internal political divide in America indicated above; the “capitalism versus democracy” symbolized by the Great Seal of the United States. The unfinished pyramid on the reverse side of the Great Seal that is America’s novus ordo seclorum is symbolic of an elitist E paucibus unum manifested through corporatist-engineered foreign policies that de facto have installed and/or supported dictatorships around the world. Conversely, the eagle on the obverse side, holding the banner E pluribus unum in its beak and both an olive branch and arrows in its claws, is symbolic of democracy in America manifested through foreign policies that facilitate the emergence of, and subsequently support, democratic institutions around the world (South Africa being a notable example). US foreign policy may often contradictorily manifest, in varying degree, both sides of the US political divide symbolized by the Great Seal: capitalism’s E paucibus unum versus democracy’s E pluribus unum.

    The current divide in US politics thus seems in principle to be over whether democracy in America is to continue, as it has been in the recent decades, as an elite-controlled institution for capitalism primarily; or is it to become a true democracy in the 21st century, having as its social mandate the promotion of “the general Welfare” – as it so very clearly stated in the Preamble to the US Constitution. In this larger, more benevolent view of democracy in America, capitalism’s novus ordo seclorum on the reverse side of the Great Seal, which capitalist elite behind closed doors translate into their E paucibus unum, cannot be allowed to continue preempting democracy’s E pluribus unum on the obverse side.

    Fred Zaman

  17. davetaylor1
    April 22, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Very interesting comment, Fred, and I think you are right: the issue is not one of “Democracy vs Capitalism”, it is the choice between the current Capitalist Democracy and Democratic Economics in an honest sense. I found your visual art reference moving. ; I’m reminded of how I rounded off a discussion of ethics recently:
    “A fresco in Brisbane’s Post Office Square depicts a faceless, self-important banker between two posh pillars holding up the industry he supports. There for all to see is the sometimes wilful dishonesty of economists. They still refer to banks as banks when (even on their faceless fronting of themselves) those institutions have quite clearly become money-lenders. When one examines the facts about “money”, the truth is that “bankers” have become “Printers Of IOU’s” who, not content to make a living from the business, talk up their profits by persuading us take more, persuade us to rent or buy their IOUs at their face value on the “never-never”, and persuade the law they have a right to seize property we have worked to pay for, even if, with what we have so far paid them and the vendor, we have already paid for it twice over. Still the economic academies, whose credit notes are in the gift of such unsympathetic, self-serving Humeans and narcissistic Nietzscheian super apes, teach us innocents and their own successors to call them “bankers”. Still, despite the recurrent crises, the economists they have taught, in the business of advising the present and future governments of businesses and nations, remain “the blind leading the blind”, unable even in the present crisis to see where they are being led – and how the meaning of words has been changed – for the wool that has pulled down over their own eyes. Do we need a new and honest word? Doubtless many of the Printers of IOUs economists have taught are as innocent as the rest of us, but the words “bent” or “crooked” are undoubtedly iconic of their direction.
    “I don’t in fact believe we do need new words; what we don’t need is Humpty Dumpty Hume telling us ‘morality’ means exactly what he chose it to mean. We need to go back to the old words, understand how different minds and ages have understood them differently, and define them unambiguously as a group of meanings systematically related to the stages of development of different minds and the roles these have become able to play. Only when we understand the choices and are able to imagine ourselves in the position of other people will we be able to choose wisely and judge fairly, firmly, yet forgivingly”.
    In retrospect, to follow up my contribution above, the question seems to be: if William of Orange’s war could be financed on the basis of mutual trust, why can’t we be, along with all our peaceful activities?

    People use different words for the same idea, i.e. of trust: Christian ‘faith’, the economist J M Keynes’s ‘confidence’, the engineer’s ‘reliability’ (whether of people or the system) as the flip side of ‘ trustworthiness’. Looking back, it was ‘gratitude’ motivated me to help maintain the hitch-hiking of my youth for future generations; gratitude which is the only appropriate response to a God who, in the moving words of Joanne Boyce’s hymn, having died for us, “now has no hands but ours”. In Christian terms Keynes was still “seeing through a glass, darkly”, but in his youth he had studied ‘probability’, the measure of reliability, and in his masterpiece proposed the equivalent of the “confession, absolution and firm purpose of amendment” by means of which God enables us unreliable humans to remain sufficiently reliable. In other words: he offered government investment as a means by which, if naive confidence in rigged markets causes the economy to fail, we can acknowledge the fact and sufficiently put it right; for the future, he believed that we would “learn more from the spirit of Gesell [proposing dated money in lieu of interest] than from [distrustful] Marx”. After he died, the ‘Fathers’ of Information Science and Cybernetics, C E Shannon and N Wiener, justified general theories of errors and how to correct them, which now operate unseen keeping computers and their programs reliable.

    The answer to my question is therefore that we could finance our activities on the basis of mutual trust: in fact there are a number of ways in which we could do so, including Keynes’s national money, Gesell’s local money and my personal money where, credit-card wise, bank deposits write off credits of real goods detailed as expenditures on consumables society will need to help nature regenerate. What we can’t do is correct errors if, because of the lie that money is a ‘good’ rather than ‘the root of all evil’, we see the errors back to front and increase ‘austerity’ instead of ‘regeneration.’

  18. Ken Zimmerman
    April 22, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    davetaylor1, your language is a bit over the top for a simply South Texas boy like me. But I get your general points. When I got my first car in 1963 my father took me to the local bank to get a car loan. I had already set up a savings account at 14 and a checking account at 16. I had no credit history. But between my promise to repay and my father’s reputation I got the loan. The car was a 1960 Chevy impala, 2 dr. Beautiful car. Price was $1000. I repaid the loan in full plus the carrying charge of $75 for a two year pay back. Of late I’ve grown more and more nostalgic for such transactions. The banker, Mr. Hughes was a friend till he died 25 years later. I attended his funeral. I don’t know many bankers whose funeral I’d attend today. Economic transactions need to be more than just about the economics. If every transaction is “just business” how are we to navigate our relationships with the actors involved except by the logics of calculation. This makes the economy a battlefield. And then we are stuck with Sun Tzu “All warfare is based on deception.” Seems to be that’s what we have today. And we can see where that had led us.

  19. davetaylor1
    April 23, 2013 at 8:10 am

    Thanks for your understanding, Ken.

    Where I come from, a few of us (by no means all!) understand ‘black’ humour, the possibility of being humorous even when you are being serious, and “over-the-top” language being an appropriate way of reacting to over-the-top situations.

    I’m also still friends with my bank branch manager from 1960, but many of today’s kids hesitate to buy a nice car on credit for fear they will lose it when they lose their job. My problem isn’t so much with people as with a system predicated (contra Adam Smith’s “the great wheel of circulation is altogether different from the goods which are circulated by means of it”) on the view that money is wealth. By now the problem is not people saying that: they (especially the 1%) know no better and need to be taught the truth. That is easier seen than described: the garden worth cultivating is the one outside the prison of one’s own garden.

  20. steve reed
    December 17, 2014 at 3:05 am

    good comments ken
    now how to fix things,,,,,getting a capitalism that functions properly in its place without taking over the place. not sure ‘we’ can get it back in its box at this point but perhaps a major crisis engendered by its failures will, such as climate change ? just the way i see things

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